Women In Biz-Do We Limit Ourselves?
This post started from a Twitter conversation with Margie Clayman and Caroline Di Diego about a post written by Carol Roth titled “At the Business Table, Where Are the Ladies?”. In this post, Roth talked about how there are so many men who are acknowledged as experts and gurus in their fields while there are very few women represented in the same way. But if you were to test yourself, which women come to mind with equal stature. They are out there! Are you familiar with Liz Strauss, Aliza Sherman, Valeria Maltoni or Lisa Petrilli? These women are just a few of the many out there doing great work that is changing the world. Margie Clayman followed up with her own post, “Women Don’t Want a League of Our Own” and asked how separate but equal can still exist in the 21st century business world?
I suppose I should add my disclaimer here…I have mixed feelings about women-centered business groups and intiatives. I think it’s only fair that you know this from the start. No, I don’t think they are completely bad or wrong. And…if your business focuses on women, then it would be ridiculous to eliminate them from your marketing plan. Just so you know, my feelings come from participating in women-centered business groups as a member and leader.
So how does separating the women in business from the men in business limit growth? This is where my mixed feelings are most apparent. For some of us, we need a place to begin that seems safe to test our ideas and ourselves. A lot of women seek a place where they believe it is acceptable to discuss business and personal life seamlessly. And that’s fine for a start but this cannot be the stopping point.
It’s not that women should not have these groups. In my small business coaching, my question is not “what are you doing?” but “why are you doing that?” Most groups have their merits and women can find these valuable places for ideas, connections and encouragement. So join NAWBO, NAFE, attend women-centered business conferences or blog on a women-only business site. Use these groups as a springboard to where you envision your business is going. But there are some things to consider if you make this your only focus.
- It makes women invisible. Did you know there is a TED talk for women? What are they talking about? There are important, world-changing ideas that are not being shared. As an example, funding for women entrepreneurs and their startups can be hard to find because venture capitalists don’t know the individual’s track history. Equity companies tend to invest in people they already know.
- It keeps women off the hook. For a number of women, staying separate from the men in business allows them to not stretch beyond their comfort zone. Getting into the elite business thinkers means risking rejection and learning to manage a multitude of personalities. It also means we don’t learn more sophisticated philosphies or business practices. Could you be elite material but playing it safe?
- It allows cultural norms and sexism to continue. Separate has never been equal. Are we minimizing someone’s talent because she built a successful skincare company or has a chain of assisted-living facilities? There can be the perception that someone is pushy because she simply asked for a sale. If there is still a message that “nice girls do not (fill in the blank), are we missing out on socially acceptable behaviors that will transform our businesses? Having different rules for each gender in the business world stifles innovation and competition.
What do you think? I could very well be off base. My experience is certainly not the be-all, end-all of what is possible. Men don’t have a monopoly on the best way to do anything in business. They have good ideas and women have good ideas. What if we had a fuller conversation? According to research, businesses who have women in high-level decision-making positions (c-level, board of directors) tend to perform better than businesses who have main men in these positions.
I’m not saying eliminate all of the women-centered business initiatives. Many of them serve important functions (e.g. Make Mine a Million). I merely ask one question…
Why do (some) women in business keep themselves separate?
17 Comments
Thanks for continuing this incredibly important dialogue. I too have mixed feelings about these separate organizations. I think it’s important to have a support network, but the idea is to get all of the great minds together.
Like I said in the post, when TED got pushback for not highlighting women speakers, the idea was to include women, not to create some “special” separate conference that was exclusionary.
I know that there are a lot of great women who want, are asking for and deserve a seat at the table alongside the men. We do not want our own table!
Thanks for keeping this going.
Carol,
Thank you for the comment! Perhaps it’s a knee jerk reaction when there is pushback to create a separate event. Truly what is most needed and desired is a bigger table for all. That way, people can have better choices about how they want to grow their businesses and themselves.
~Elli
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Niall Devitt, Elli StGeorgeGodfrey. Elli StGeorgeGodfrey said: @caroljsroth @CASUDI @karimacatherine @MargieClayman Here's my contribution to the convo about women in business. http://bit.ly/gulJjB [...]
Today, it is no longer about the lack of a level playing field for women to successfully compete with men in the business world.
It’s really about women executives and business owners not shooting themselves in the foot due to a lack of leadership capability. By developing effective leadership skills, from becoming more self-knowledged and emotional-intelligent to understand how their behavior is perceived by their direct reports and peers, female executives can get to where they want to be.
Hi Elli,
Great post. You make some really good points, and I’d like to add my two cents.
In my experience, I’ve found that it’s much easier establishing relationships, growing your referral base, building a support network, and generally gaining ground when you actively participate in a women-centric organization. I think that they foster growth, rather than limit it.
I do agree that separating the women from the men in business CAN limit growth, but only if you allow it to. In many cases, having a testosterone-free environment is actually a catalyst for growth. Many people, men and women alike, are intimidated or just plain turned off by the Type A men that most networking groups tend to attract. Their aggressive, in-your-face ways often create a very uneasy atmosphere – one that is not conducive to building relationships around which you can grow your business. Now, I realize that there are some women who are like this as well – the door definitely swings both ways – however I’ve found that women-centric groups tend to attract fewer of them.
I don’t think it’s any great surprise to find that business organizations that are geared toward both men and women consist mostly of men, and by a large margin. Women are underrepresented in almost every one (if not all) of these organizations, which means that their needs are most often underrepresented as well.
Organizations that are focused on supporting women entrepreneurs speak to the unique subset of challenges women entrepreneurs face, and help fill the gap that exists in more traditional, non-gender exclusive groups. I agree that these should not be the sole focus – women need to branch out beyond their comfort zones and participate in organizations that cater to both sexes as well. But there’s no reason why both can’t exist, functioning separately but fully complimenting each other when used in tandem. Just as with anything in business, it’s always best to employ a mixture of strategies, tools, and resources in order to achieve success.
My question is this: Are women in business ‘invisible’ because we limit ourselves to women-centric organizations, or are we invisible because the male-dominated business world places a higher value on the skills and talents of men? Food for thought.
Thanks for the great post, and for letting me voice my opinion!
-Tara Holling
Entreprenista.com
Tara Holling recently posted..How She Does It- Joanne Medvitz- Pop Outerwear
John,
I’m still not convinced it’s a level playing field. I’d say it’s getting there but not quite level yet.
However, I agree with your point about leadership. This can be learned if the person is willing to set aside his or her insecurities. Knowing how others see you is a huge gift and allows you to fine tune that training.
~Elli
Tara,
Yes, the testosterone can get out of hand! And, like you said, it can turn off men too.
The subset of challenges women face may be the thing we trip on the most. In my current book project which focuses on women who lead small businesses, it is apparent that society expects us to handle personal crises that affect our family members. This can create a difficult dilemma. This is on top of the other trade offs women business owners and executives make every day.
Like you said, there isn’t an either/or for whether women should belong to any particular type of group. She has to evaluate what is best for her business and herself. Building a network that reflects the complementary aspect of traditional and women-centric groups may actually provide the most learning and business growth.
Your last question is a great one and I hope people weigh in on it.
Thanks for your 2 cents,
Elli
I am so glad I caught the conversation between you and Caroline and nudged you towards writing this post. It’s a GREAT addition to the conversation and an important one, too.
For me, one of the big questions is this. Would you rather be at the top of a “women only” list, or would you rather be at the top of a list?
I’d like to know how I’m competing against everybody, because, let’s face it, we’re competing against men, we’re competing against people of different races, different backgrounds. It would be great to take the lump sum and see how it all pans out.
Margie,
Thanks for the nudge! Sometimes 140 characters is just too short to really capture what is being said.
Your question is one of my big questions too. Underneath it all is really the question about what effect we intend our work to have on the world. And yes, it is that big. Where a woman chooses to compete has to be consistent with her values, aspirations and goals. Testing ourselves on a big stage allows for a lot of learning.
It makes me wonder what there is to fear? What’s the worst that could happen and would that be really as awful as we imagine?
Rock on, Margie! I look forward to seeing how things turn out for you!
~Elli
Hi there Elli,
A great post and one that I imagine will have conversations about the the topic rolling for sometime..
I am a founder member of a ‘Womens Group’ we give advice and support to women from all walks of Business, from baking in their kitchens to working in an Accountancy Firm and a Gym owner too. We provide an environment where the members can come and ask questions about all aspects of Business. We have members from all walks of Business who are happy to answer and help others..
I am lucky to have been involved with some high profile networking groups, mixed and ‘women only’ and am also lucky to be able to say I am comfortable talking and putting myself forward to participate on any level. But, I know of more women than men who find those environments difficult to participate in.
I dont think Womens Only groups seperate us or stop us from moving forward, I think they can give us platform to spring from. I was a member of a predominantly male Networking Group before I ever joined a Womens Goup, I loved being part of both and got different things from both….
Originally networking and mixing in Business was a male orientated activity, women just didn’t do it. Because we were “not involved” we started our own… (Maybe thats a very basic view!!??!!) I do feel they give a strength to those who may not have initially had the confidence to take that step towards a mixed group… (obviously not all will make that step)
The best thing, Men are interested in our group now, they are interested in the direction we have taken…
I hope I haven’t taken too mch comment space
Brilliant Post
Tori
Tori,
You did not take up too much comment space! Actually, your story is an excellent one as it demonstrates how combining both can enhance self-development and business development.
Networking is a much easier environment to negotiate when one sees each one to one meeting is really a conversation starter. There are different things to be gained by engaging in both mixed and women-centric groups. The most important part of the process is knowing “why” you’re there. If you’re at the women-centric group as a way to hide from the discomfort felt in mixed groups, then it is important to discover what triggers that discomfort. If you avoid women-centric groups as being too full of amateurs, then you miss out on meeting powerful successful women.
~Elli
From the outside looking in, I am inclined to think that women only biz groups must be limiting but then the women involved report how necessary they are. There is also the social/supporting aspect that perhaps is sometimes overlooked in these dialogues. It strikes me as one of those grey areas or maybe that’s just me a man being afraid to take a stand. Phew! when it comes to women, I always end up feeling confused
– Niall
Niall Devitt recently posted..Sales Blogger Extraordinaire! 1000 Blog Posts & Counting
Niall,
For someone who is confused, you articulated an important aspect of why women participate in women-centric groups.
I was just talking with someone yesterday about a women’s group and the kinds of issues she’s been hearing them talk about. Many women feel sandwiched by the demands that are placed on them. Running a full time small business is demanding enough but many women also have to go home and take care of their homes and families. These expectations are not the same for men. Even if you don’t talk about what is happening in your personal life, knowing that there are others in the same boat as you can be very normalizing and reassuring.
Thanks for the comment!
~Elli
What a controversal subject Elli!
A higher power has chosen a man and woman to procreate and be together because (maybe) the balance of what makes one a woman and one a man is what makes us strong. There’s things that make us unique, things we share as a culture; as male or female; as ethic groups, the list is endless. Why do we focus on the differences as negatives and not as strengths?
I’m part of the same women’s group as Tori and I have to say that it has many benefits. We use the group to natter and share stories, we are have equal control over decisions and can confidently voice what’s on our minds. The fact that we are all women means that its like having a ‘girl’s night’. Its not a secret society, its not a way to push out the guys, its just a group of like-minded ladies connecting the way us ladies do.
Is the group limiting? No. Its empowering, its a different way of working together, of learning and sharing. You can join ten groups and find something that bit different in each. Call it the groups’ unique selling points. They can be diverse – some structured and informal, some relaxed and light hearted… the fact that one is all women and one is mixed is not it’s defining feature, just A feature.
Tina,
What a great testimonial about why the women-only group is working for you!
The downside to making room for conversation that includes the personal and the professional in a woman-centric group is that it turns off some women who aren’t adept at expressing feelings or the “touchy-feely” stuff. It’s a balance, for sure! And yet, if that isn’t their cup of tea, like you pointed out, there are so many other groups out there that will fit their needs and wants.
It isn’t one or the other! This conversation is really about is making sure that any woman in business can compete with and work alongside men and not have to explain their gender or justify that they belong. My addition to the conversation is to know why you are part of a women-centric organization and how it supports the kind of business growth you desire.
~Elli
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